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From:Van Date:November 10 2002 7:20pm
Subject:Re: PHP bias (Way OT)
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Not sure why my post didn't cc to the list, originally.  I think I picked up on
your tone, but the one thing I had intended to add was the dynamic that the more
I do this stuff, the more I find myself just having to "get over" some of the
more ugly and cludged implementations due to limitations in what our
end-users/clients are willing to let us do.  In other words:  who cares. 
They'll never really look at it that closely and if another developer comes in
several years later to make any changes/enhancements, they'll probably just do a

Once upon a time, I thought you could code elegantly, and C/C++ is about the
only realm in which I see this to still be possible.  PHP/ASP and
_especially!!!_ ColdFusion are impossible to write elegant and easy to document
code, but I think PHP is the best of these evils since it has such a huge
function set.  ASP is worthless for other reasons, and CF is just disgusting to
look at.

I _realize_ Perl is fast, and powerful.  I really _do_ realize that.  But, it's
ugly.  It looks like Snoopy swearing characters, and you can talk (write) about
how it's elegant until you're blue in the face, but show it to a CIO/CFO and
they'll tell you it's ugly, and they're quite correct.

But, people program in it extensively, and do great things with it; it's just
ugly.  And, so are most implementations.  In a perfect world, everyone would use
C/C++, but they don't and I don't care.  I'll use it if I choose to.  I'll use
Perl to do quick and dirty things.  And, I'll code ColdFusion if someone is
offering me money to do so.  At the end of the day, no programming/technology is
pretty; where are those beer nuts.

And, BTW, clearly there's no one better equipped to point out your original
thoughts on what _can_ be done in Perl.

--mysql, table, drop, explain, database--

Best Regards,
Linux rocks!!!
Paul DuBois wrote:
> (some stuff I snipped)
> >You can do all these things from perl.  Or PHP, or CF, or ASP.  Just pass your
> >variables to an external web-server running it's own proprietary web database
> >and you'll get what you need.
> >
> >Sorry; am I speaking out of step, here?  We all do this...  I run MySQL on my
> >own servers, but my clients are still pretty thick-headed...  they
> >use M$Access
> >and ColdFusion.  And, I can still drop and add columns through a
> >web-interface.
> >It's very ugly, but it still works.  Is there anyone here making a living that
> >doesn't have to work through such interface-specific things?
> >
> >Didn't think so; but, in a perfect world, we'd all be doing things ANSI SQL
> >92...  Whatever...  pass the beer nuts.  >:)
> >
> >Van
PHP biasRobert Macwange10 Nov
  • Re: PHP biasR. Hannes Niedner10 Nov
    • RE: PHP biasJohn Meyer10 Nov
    • Re: PHP biasandy thomas10 Nov
      • Re: PHP biasJeremy Zawodny10 Nov
      • Re: PHP biasPaul DuBois10 Nov
        • Re: PHP biasR. Hannes Niedner10 Nov
        • Re: PHP biasR. Hannes Niedner10 Nov
      • Re: PHP biasOctavian Rasnita10 Nov
      • Re: PHP bias (Way OT)Van10 Nov
        • RE: PHP bias (Way OT)Alan McDonald10 Nov
          • Re: PHP bias (Way OT)Van10 Nov
            • RE: PHP bias (Way OT)Dan Rossi10 Nov
          • RE: PHP bias (Way OT)Dan Rossi10 Nov
  • Re: PHP biasJeremy Zawodny10 Nov
  • Re: PHP biasGeorg Richter10 Nov
    • Re: PHP bias Stop feeding the trollR. Hannes Niedner10 Nov
    • Re: PHP biasPhil Straw10 Nov
  • Re: PHP biasVan10 Nov
Re: PHP bias (Way OT)Jan Steinman11 Nov