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From:Mike Brando Date:October 28 2003 8:56pm
Subject:RE: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)
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Begging to differ, no vendor that I'm aware of claims to be compliant with a
paper or textbook. They tend to comply with an adopted standard such as:

ANSI/ISO/IEC 9075-1(through 5):1999
ISO/IEC 9075-1(through 5):1999

Collectively known as SQL:1999. While I'd offer that MySQL *is* a relational
database, (even though I'm very new to the environment); I think there's some
ways to go before MySQL has core compatibility with SQL:1999. That's what's
more important to me, the adoption of accepted standards.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Brando
Senior Manager of Engineering
Applied Biosystems
3833 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95134-1701


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heikki Tuuri [mailto:Heikki.Tuuri@stripped]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 12:29 PM
> To: mysql@stripped
> Subject: Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)
> 
> Hi!
> 
> For decades, people have debated in comp.databases.theory and elsewhere how
> a 'relational database' should be defined.
> 
> Codd's original 1970 paper sketches the relational algebra as a query
> language of a relational database, though Codd is not very precise about
> what the query language exactly should be. The paper also mentions integrity
> constraints. Relations in the 1970 paper are defined as mathematical sets,
> that is, no duplicate rows in tables or any query results are allowed.
> 
> Thus, no SQL database is Codd-1970-relational, because SQL allows duplicate
> rows.
> 
> Codd's 12 rules, from about 1987, demand that a 'relational database' must
> satisfy several strict conditions. For example, any view 'theoretically
> updateable should be updateable with the data manipulation language'.
> 
> No existing database is even close to being Codd-12-relational.
> 
> On the other hand, for example, Elmasri and Navathe in their university
> textbook define a 'relational database' less strictly, and mention Microsoft
> Access and Oracle as examples of an 'RDBMS'.
> 
> Thus, MySQL apparently is Elmasri-Navathe-relational, but not
> Codd-1970-relational. The same holds for DB2, Oracle, and MS SQL Server.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Heikki Tuuri
> Innobase Oy
> http://www.innodb.com
> Foreign keys, transactions, and row level locking for MySQL
> InnoDB Hot Backup - hot backup tool for InnoDB which also backs up MyISAM
> tables
> Order MySQL technical support from https://order.mysql.com/
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Saqib Ali" <saqib@stripped>
> Newsgroups: mailing.database.myodbc
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 10:10 PM
> Subject: RE: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)
> 
> 
> > so funtions that can be performed by relation algebra are a subset of the
> > functions performed by a relational database?
> >
> > however isn't it required for a relational database to perform all the
> > functions of relation algebra?
> >
> >
> > Saqib Ali
> > ---------
> > http://validate.sourceforge.net <--- XHTML/HTML/DocBook Validator
> >
> > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Jon Frisby wrote:
> >
> > > No.  Codd's rules defining what is a relational database are more
> > > specific than relational algebra can express.  Essentially the
> > > requirements to be a relational database are a superset of the
> > > operations defined by relational algebra.
> > >
> > > -JF
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Saqib Ali [mailto:saqib@stripped]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:47 AM
> > > > To: jeffrey_n_Dyke@stripped
> > > > Cc: mysql@stripped
> > > > Subject: Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a question...
> > > >
> > > > is any DB that complies to the "Relational Algebra" a
> > > > "Relational DB"???
> > > >
> > > > Saqib Ali
> > > > ---------
> > > > http://validate.sourceforge.net <--- XHTML/HTML/DocBook Validator
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 jeffrey_n_Dyke@stripped wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I tend to agree with the past two posts that mysql is in
> > > > fact relational,
> > > > > and would like to add that if we are going to make blanket
> > > > statements that
> > > > > something IS or IS NOT that we qualify our responses.
> > > > personlly i would
> > > > > like to know why Martijn views it as being a non relational
> > > > db, without
> > > > > argument.  If you just say its so, why am is supposed to take
> that
> > > > > statement over those that provide a full email of text like
> > > > bluejack or
> > > > > John that provided additional information via a link.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just saying No, to a question like that does not lend to
> > > > learning only to
> > > > > confusion.
> > > > >
> > > > > sorry about the mini rant....
> > > > > jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >                       bluejack
> > > > >                       <blunt@stripped        To:
> > > > mysql@stripped
> > > > >                       om>                      cc:
> > > > >                                                Subject:  Is
> > > > MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)
> > > > >                       10/28/2003 11:38
> > > > >                       AM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 10/28/03 8:11:16 AM, "Martijn Tonies"
> <m.tonies@stripped> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> If you are trying to determine whether MySQL is a
> > > > relational database,
> > > > > >> the answer is yes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ehm... the answer is "no".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >It's getting better, that's for sure.
> > > > >
> > > > > MySQL may or may not conform to some standard or another, and it
> may
> > > > > or may not perform the tasks that you, personally, want it to,
> but
> > > > > in fact it *is* a relational database, as opposed to a flat file
> or
> > > > > an object database.
> > > > >
> > > > > I recommended the questioner evaluate her needs against MySQL's
> > > > > available feature set, because if you are used to Oracle (or
> some
> > > > > other robust, commercial relational database) you may be
> surprised
> > > > > at some of the differences or absences in MySQL.
> > > > >
> > > > > But the questioner made it seem as though she was really just
> > > > > trying to get a feel for the basics scope of MySQL, and in that
> > > > > context, yes, MySQL is designed to a implement a relational
> > > > > database model as opposed to some other fundamental type of
> > > > > database.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, what's your laundry list of things MySQL should do?
> > > > >
> > > > > --bluejack
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > MySQL General Mailing List
> > > > > For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> > > > > To unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?> unsub=jdyke@stripped
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > MySQL General
> > > > Mailing List
> > > > > For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> > > > > To unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?> unsub=saqib@stripped
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > MySQL General Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> > > > To unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.mysql.com/mysql?> unsub=jfrisby@stripped
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > MySQL General Mailing List
> > For list archives: http://lists.mysql.com/mysql
> > To unsubscribe:
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> >
> 
> 
> 
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Thread
Foreigner keys in MySQL?Juliana Gubert Ehrensperger28 Oct
  • RE: Foreigner keys in MySQL?Michael McTernan28 Oct
  • Re: Foreigner keys in MySQL?Peter Brawley28 Oct
  • Re: Foreigner keys in MySQL?bluejack28 Oct
    • Re: Foreigner keys in MySQL?Martijn Tonies28 Oct
      • Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)bluejack28 Oct
        • Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)Martijn Tonies28 Oct
      • Re: Foreigner keys in MySQL?shrek-m@gmx.de28 Oct
RE: Foreigner keys in MySQL?John Griffin28 Oct
Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)jeffrey_n_Dyke28 Oct
  • Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)Saqib Ali28 Oct
RE: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)Saqib Ali28 Oct
Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)bluejack28 Oct
Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)Heikki Tuuri28 Oct
  • RE: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)Mike Brando28 Oct
    • Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)Martijn Tonies29 Oct
Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)Peter Brawley28 Oct
Re: Is MySQL Relational? (was: Foreigner keys in MySQL?)Martijn Tonies29 Oct