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From:Jeremy Zawodny Date:March 31 2003 11:56pm
Subject:Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?
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On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 11:37:47AM -0800, Seth Brundle wrote:
> First people, please dont get all angry about my suggestion...please hear me
> out...
> 
> > I really hate on-line forums.  They're difficult to track because I
> > must remember visit them daily.
> 
> OK this is the first issue - 95% of people who need MySQL info do not need
> it daily. Mailing lists are a poor tool for them.
> 
> > And I can't use them while disconnected.
> 
> Hmmmm...seems like some Yahoo! employee  has never used  Yahoo! Groups ;)

Huh?  I'm on about 24 Y! Groups.

Your original post was to request "A web discussion board."  I don't
think of Y! Groups in that category at all.  They're primarily e-mail
based.  And the web interface portion is pretty bad.  There are much
better web-base systems out there.

Look at DSLReports, for example.  That's an excellent web-based
discussion system.  Y! Groups could learn a lot from it,
interface-wise.

> There is plenty of web discussion software (like Yahoo! Groups,
> although I'm not necessarily recommending that one) where you can
> still have all of the features of a mailing list, yet also have all
> the features of web discussion, so there really is no reason to have
> a mailing list only, except to be old-school.

Ahh, okay.  That didn't come across at all [to me, at least] in your
original post.

> > > A web discussion board is a much more powerful and flexible tool for
> > > this type of community.
> >
> > Hmm.  E-mail has been around for a long, long time.  I'm skeptical of
> > this claim.
> 
> Just because its been around longer means its better?

Not at all.  But it means I'm going to be skeptical of some new shiny
thing just because it is new and shiny.

> I'm just saying that usenet groups and discussion forums solved the
> problem of belonging to too many mailing lists.

Yes, but they're not the only solution, right?

My mail software solves the problem for me.  I've never really had
trouble getting 500-3,000 messages per day.

> If every package I used involved a mailing list for discussion, I
> would need to track about 40 of them. Right now the only mailing
> lists I really am stuck using is MySQL and ImageMagick.

You make it sound as if there are no web-based discussion forums that
welcome MySQL discussion.  There are many.

> > > Thread tracking, archiving, searching
> > E-mail gives you all of those.
> 
> Unless you have the entire history of the mailing list downloaded to
> your mail spool and have a very powerful, feature-rich, and most
> importatly very fast email search tool, you cant both search
> archives and post messages with the same piece of software.

Agreed.  I've yet to see a good mail tool that does it all.  But that
doesn't mean mailing lists bad.

> Email is ok for thread tracking if subject integrity is maintained, but most
> email clients cant reliably collapse and expand threads.

That goes back to my original response to you--it's a matter of using
the right tools.

> > > Also emails get mirrored on google groups for convenient spam
> > > harvesting - its really a pain in the butt.
> >
> > How would using a web forum help that?
> 
> Because most modern web forum software has an option to hide your email
> address.

That's a minor issue if you ask me.  Anyone can published un-munged
archives for this list.  You're assuming that nobody else will.

> Also a web forum has a lot of other advantages:
> 
> -Easily break discussion into sub-categories (especially for MySQL, where
> SQL questions are combined with everything else, would be nice to break that
> out)

What sort of categories would you envision?  I had thought about
floating a idea for batter categorizing posts here, but never got
around to it.

> -Better threading, allowing subject change and collapsing/expanding threads

Better than what?

> -Dont break long URLs.

Who is breaking them now?

> -Heavily quoted emails easier to read.

> -Facilitate private messages without using email.

Why is that good?  Do we need yet another way to message that's like
e-mail but different for the sake of being different?

> Also, a lot of people are adverse to web collaboration because most free
> discussion software is crap. It is either not very powerful, poorly
> designed, or difficult to install and/or maintain.

Or full of very annoying ads.  Y! Groups, anyone?

> FuseTalk seems like an excellent package.
> FatWallet.com uses it.

I'll have a look.  I've only seen a very few on-line discussion
systems that really impressed me.

> SourceForge is a great idea, but a poorly designed system.
> Obviously a package designed by an engineer, its a mess.

Indeed.

Jeremy
-- 
Jeremy D. Zawodny     |  Perl, Web, MySQL, Linux Magazine, Yahoo!
<Jeremy@stripped>  |  http://jeremy.zawodny.com/

MySQL 4.0.8: up 56 days, processed 1,896,986,981 queries (388/sec. avg)
Thread
Could we make this a web discussion forum?Seth Brundle31 Mar
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?B. van Ouwerkerk31 Mar
    • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Seth Brundle1 Apr
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Jeremy Zawodny31 Mar
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?gerald_clark31 Mar
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Seth Brundle31 Mar
    • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Dan Nelson31 Mar
    • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?B. van Ouwerkerk1 Apr
    • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Jeremy Zawodny1 Apr
      • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?David T-G1 Apr
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Seth Brundle1 Apr
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Seth Brundle5 Apr
re[2]: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Richard Morton31 Mar
RE: Could we make this a web discussion forum?David Brodbeck31 Mar
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Seth Brundle1 Apr
    • RE: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Jennifer Goodie1 Apr
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Seth Brundle1 Apr
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Martin Gainty1 Apr
    • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?miguel solorzano1 Apr
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Martin Gainty1 Apr
RE: Could we make this a web discussion forum?David Brodbeck31 Mar
  • Re: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Michael T. Babcock2 Apr
RE: Could we make this a web discussion forum?John Griffin31 Mar
  • RE: Could we make this a web discussion forum?Damien COLA31 Mar
RE: Could we make this a web discussion forum?David Brodbeck1 Apr
RE: Could we make this a web discussion forum?David Brodbeck1 Apr
RE: Could we make this a web discussion forum?David Brodbeck1 Apr